okay
so here are my findings. im uncertain about getting oobe through meditation
alone. Cause i havent yet reached that state, however ill make a point about it
as well. People who are solely trying to pull out oobe using sleep alone will
have hard time doing it, if done it will be difficult to repeat. I have never
been a
follower
of buddhist path i actually joined this forum cause i like ways of Jeffery and how he also connects samadhi with jhanas.
I will try to explain in terms of energy and chakras which is related to what i
have been followings all these years. I will let you know that my main aim was
to attain self knowledge (enlightenment if u wud call it). So how much energy
or awareness u gather around your 6th chakra i.e. third eye, decides if u will
be able to project or not. More we meditate more we get used to focus our
entire energy or consciousness at third eye which otherwise is spread
throughout the body. Once we go to
sleep, energy falls below third eye thats why everything becomes groggy and
eyes close, when we are dreaming awareness is totally concentrated in throat
area, of course much the awareness is in unconscious domain. Now to pull oobe
in total awareness through meditation is something i believe takes time and
practice and serious efforts need to be put in by retracting from worldly life
intially atleast. Now people find it easy to project through sleep cause the
awareness is already detached from the body and focused in one of the chakra,
dream itself can be called oobe, only we need to drag our awareness to third
eye to feel more in control and more we pull our consciousness up more lucid it
feels.
Now
people who are doing it thru sleep alone without meditation its difficult. I
however learnt to combine it with meditation which i think many people wud have
learnt to maybe they dont describe it that way.
So
what i was doing it, it rather first two times happend accidently,
I
started meditating around 1hr before sleep , i wud directly goto bed (if you
goto bed without meditation of a minimum amount of time which varies from
person to person based on ur spiritual progress, you WILL FEEL RESTLESS) and
fall asleep without moving a muscle.. I first day had some super lucid dream
and woke up in sleep paralysis. These things have happend to me numerous times
so i didn make much of it, thinking that i cant repeat the experience anyways.
But
similar episode happend next night,, as the days passed for the whole week i
had something or the other experience, very lucid. Slowly by the end of 10 days
the duration i used to meditate reduced
to 10 mins cause i cud keep very still and fall asleep with just 10 mins of
meditation by then. But nothing happend since then. with a gap of 2,3 days
thinking that my meditation time has reduced per day so ill meditate first
thing in the morning, so i wud get up in bed and start meditating. I wud do it
for 45mins or so but iwud feel so sleepy so ill lay down and without me knwing
i went to sleep very still,,, and suddenly i openned my eyes and it felt diff,,
i saw color and i cudnt move my body,,, i knew what it was.... after half a min
or so of looking around thru extraordinary vision, i woke up in physical. then
since then i had similar experiences for around 2 months straight.. every day.
i wont bother u with details, but slowly even my morning meditation reduced in
duration and experiences stopped happening,,,, i didn bother cause i felt i was
not getting any better control in these experiences anyways and i cud barely
make across the room in my astral body. I tried diff methods,,, focusing on
third eye and falling asleep didn seem to work though,, what worked was
relaxing my body and generating a pleasen numbness like feeling all over the
body, which i get till today when i
meditate, i believe its our consciousness detaching from body so we dont
feel out body as rigid as we do while going about in the world,, there were
diff nuances i worked and recorded in my diary with all the expreinces i had.
So ill most importantly conclude the trick: u
will pull oobe or not that depends on the proper proportion of sleep and
meditation.. if ur totally advanced u dont need sleep at all. If u arent u need
some amount of sleep as well, more u meditate less u need portion of sleep,
lesser will be the unconscious u feel in oobe. But if u do less meditation and
goto sleep u will become aware in ur sleep and pull oobe.
Like
if u wanna do oobe when u first goto sleep, since ur body mind needs 7-8 hrs of
sleep u need to do more meditaiton maybe 50 mins to 1 hr before sleep, and goto
bed thenu will have the experience for sure.
and
if u wake up lets say after 4hrs of sleep u will need maybe 30 to 40mins of
meditation and go back to bed without moving a muscle,, u shall get the
experience
and
if u wake up 1hr before regular time, i.e 1hr less sleep then u need just 20
mins of meditation... there are nuances on how u will meditate and how shall u
fall asleep after meditation,,, what u shud be doing while falling asleep.. I
can tell u more if ur interested.
this
is basically wake back to bed method, but people dont realize importance of
meditation, otherwise it will become very easy for every one :D i think very
very few people knw the trick. Well its not a trick its a KEY.
~
Reflections with Naman
Hi
Naman,
Thank you for the very interesting thoughts. I also read a few of your posts from a few years ago and found you were discussing many unique ideas.
1. In one post you asked about the importance of bodily motionless (which I mentioned earlier), and yes this seems to be a key.
2. You discuss the length of sittings and how much is required and this is one I am still trying to discern. For example, Robert Monroe and Benjamin (one of the OOB writers) both seem to have their experiences with no meditation experience. There are also some other OOB writers I have read who say they simply go to bed with the intent to have an OOBE, and they have it with 50% reliability. What differentiates them from others - what "training" they have gone through - is something to figure out.
3. Building off #2, this chakra theory might be the right idea. Yes, perhaps.
4. You also asked about an exact issue I had - about meditating and not feeling a sense of "crispness." I used to think that "crispness" was essential. I think what finally broke me out of this was learning about the OOBEs experienced by people I would think were less spiritually mature than me, which I did not understand. So, I realized losing crispness is just par for the course - crispness was not required for "progress."
5. You also asked a question once along the lines of "OK I am meditating, what now?" Haha I definitely share this idea. I think I have still been trying to work out how it "works" exactly. If one could know how it "works" one could just fulfill whatever was required for progress. For example, the questions arise: 1. Is meditation just a cognitive exercise? 2. How connected is meditation progress to personal development? 3. Does bodily motionlessness facilitate some kind of special change? 4. Does sitting produce some kind of abstract "merit"? And so on...
6. I also find your idea on "meditation alone" very interesting. I will keep this in mind: that there is some kind of relationship between meditation and sleep.
7. You discussed at one point the importance of equanimity before going OOB. If I were to look at some of my experiences over the past years (discussed in this thread) from a teleological (what purpose?) perspective, they could be seen as "training" in selflessness and equanimity. This would then make sense for the sudden inner "push" recently for me to now pursue the OOBE.
What were your thoughts on the relationship between the OOBE and enlightenment?
In the meantime I will keep experimenting.
Thank you for the very interesting thoughts. I also read a few of your posts from a few years ago and found you were discussing many unique ideas.
1. In one post you asked about the importance of bodily motionless (which I mentioned earlier), and yes this seems to be a key.
2. You discuss the length of sittings and how much is required and this is one I am still trying to discern. For example, Robert Monroe and Benjamin (one of the OOB writers) both seem to have their experiences with no meditation experience. There are also some other OOB writers I have read who say they simply go to bed with the intent to have an OOBE, and they have it with 50% reliability. What differentiates them from others - what "training" they have gone through - is something to figure out.
3. Building off #2, this chakra theory might be the right idea. Yes, perhaps.
4. You also asked about an exact issue I had - about meditating and not feeling a sense of "crispness." I used to think that "crispness" was essential. I think what finally broke me out of this was learning about the OOBEs experienced by people I would think were less spiritually mature than me, which I did not understand. So, I realized losing crispness is just par for the course - crispness was not required for "progress."
5. You also asked a question once along the lines of "OK I am meditating, what now?" Haha I definitely share this idea. I think I have still been trying to work out how it "works" exactly. If one could know how it "works" one could just fulfill whatever was required for progress. For example, the questions arise: 1. Is meditation just a cognitive exercise? 2. How connected is meditation progress to personal development? 3. Does bodily motionlessness facilitate some kind of special change? 4. Does sitting produce some kind of abstract "merit"? And so on...
6. I also find your idea on "meditation alone" very interesting. I will keep this in mind: that there is some kind of relationship between meditation and sleep.
7. You discussed at one point the importance of equanimity before going OOB. If I were to look at some of my experiences over the past years (discussed in this thread) from a teleological (what purpose?) perspective, they could be seen as "training" in selflessness and equanimity. This would then make sense for the sudden inner "push" recently for me to now pursue the OOBE.
What were your thoughts on the relationship between the OOBE and enlightenment?
In the meantime I will keep experimenting.
~
Naman's
Response
Thank
you for the genuine interest.
1. Yes being motionless during meditation or wake back to bed method,, is really important. However its one side of coin, striking a balance of sleep and meditation as u try oobe thru sleep is another really important thing neglecting this means no experience... Motionless state can spontaneously happen as we meditate and goto sleep aftwrwards.
2. It seems to be related to efforts of lifetime. Earlier i used to believe it has something to do with the duration of single sitting, its loosely related but more important is the gradual progress which we achieve over length of time. Can be expedited by more and more meditation. But at a given instance meditational experience will be dependent on overall progress.. How even experts of oobe attain that state in shorter time as years pass by is a proof.
3. One more thing i want to add for a spritiual seeker time is also important,, as we age naturally also we shud become more spiritual.. Mamy people i know start having spontaneous oobe as they reach 40 .. It depends from person to person.
4. We cant judge our progress only a master can, however like we discussed oobe can be achieved thru sleep, which is so low in terms of crispness,, but actual spiritual progress is better with crispness.. And trust me mastery over oobe is not a parameter for spirituall progress.. We know it as one of siddhis.. A immaterial accomplish, compared to spiritual goals this is still material.
After all after death everybody is in permanent oobe, this isnt something very spiritual. Its rather occult in nature. Other siddhis include being able to drop body at will, change bodies, make physical boddy bigger or smaller, being able to transport to other space etc etc.
5. I have diff theories, one is theory of karma,, when u r acting in world ur dissipating karma and generating even more, when ur meditating ur gathering non also burning reserve karma. Majority people cant imagine sitting idle without moving without emgaging in thinking and enjoying it. Cause they have heavy load of karma. U can also explain it in terms of energy. Meditation brings control over prana, which drives mind which otherwise is always restless.. Stilling body calm down prana. Breath slows. Breath indirectly related to prana, mind slows down.. Looses the patterns and unconscious habits. Becomes brighter sharper... Sitting motionless takes consciouness beyond body, it helps in gathering experience beyond body, thus increaing knowledge leading to liberation. I have found that no other tool is there as efficient as meditation in controlling impulsive behaviour. However if its mixed with pranayama benefits are immense.. You get great siddhis.. I cud do things sitting in my room juat thinking abt it haha people will come to me if i wish, works get done etc etc.
1. Yes being motionless during meditation or wake back to bed method,, is really important. However its one side of coin, striking a balance of sleep and meditation as u try oobe thru sleep is another really important thing neglecting this means no experience... Motionless state can spontaneously happen as we meditate and goto sleep aftwrwards.
2. It seems to be related to efforts of lifetime. Earlier i used to believe it has something to do with the duration of single sitting, its loosely related but more important is the gradual progress which we achieve over length of time. Can be expedited by more and more meditation. But at a given instance meditational experience will be dependent on overall progress.. How even experts of oobe attain that state in shorter time as years pass by is a proof.
3. One more thing i want to add for a spritiual seeker time is also important,, as we age naturally also we shud become more spiritual.. Mamy people i know start having spontaneous oobe as they reach 40 .. It depends from person to person.
4. We cant judge our progress only a master can, however like we discussed oobe can be achieved thru sleep, which is so low in terms of crispness,, but actual spiritual progress is better with crispness.. And trust me mastery over oobe is not a parameter for spirituall progress.. We know it as one of siddhis.. A immaterial accomplish, compared to spiritual goals this is still material.
After all after death everybody is in permanent oobe, this isnt something very spiritual. Its rather occult in nature. Other siddhis include being able to drop body at will, change bodies, make physical boddy bigger or smaller, being able to transport to other space etc etc.
5. I have diff theories, one is theory of karma,, when u r acting in world ur dissipating karma and generating even more, when ur meditating ur gathering non also burning reserve karma. Majority people cant imagine sitting idle without moving without emgaging in thinking and enjoying it. Cause they have heavy load of karma. U can also explain it in terms of energy. Meditation brings control over prana, which drives mind which otherwise is always restless.. Stilling body calm down prana. Breath slows. Breath indirectly related to prana, mind slows down.. Looses the patterns and unconscious habits. Becomes brighter sharper... Sitting motionless takes consciouness beyond body, it helps in gathering experience beyond body, thus increaing knowledge leading to liberation. I have found that no other tool is there as efficient as meditation in controlling impulsive behaviour. However if its mixed with pranayama benefits are immense.. You get great siddhis.. I cud do things sitting in my room juat thinking abt it haha people will come to me if i wish, works get done etc etc.
6.
What i have known is, meditation or devotion or karma yoga there are many
paths, but any path without self knowledge or true knowledge is
incomplete. We can discuss more abt it. My main path is gyan
yoga. Or jnan yoga.
7. For me oobe has a definite purpose even though i knew long back something like this existed.. But i never tried to do it.. Cause for me it was a distraction from path of enlightenment.. It need not be.. It is a tool also. Its a path also for many.. I was wrong. But me personally i used it to rest in my own final nature rather than exploring other realms.. It gives the taste of final liberation without dying to achiving it forever.
Watch this if you get time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjh2UVqFzQU
7. For me oobe has a definite purpose even though i knew long back something like this existed.. But i never tried to do it.. Cause for me it was a distraction from path of enlightenment.. It need not be.. It is a tool also. Its a path also for many.. I was wrong. But me personally i used it to rest in my own final nature rather than exploring other realms.. It gives the taste of final liberation without dying to achiving it forever.
Watch this if you get time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjh2UVqFzQU
I
dont usually post here much, i come to read mostly. Jeffery is much
elder and experienced advanced soul. So i prefer reading his responses
than to give my comparatively in experienced advise or comments haha
I do dream of a society where group of people live together, genuine spiritual seekers. I know its too much to ask for, but we have to sincerely rethink about our priorities as a community of human beings on earth. in pursuit of tangible we are missing the point of it all , experience was the main goal without any end goal. If it makes their stay more pleasant then its worth more than my pursuit of mindless material growth. After all to get human experience we have to take so so much of trouble and pain. and as far as attaining truth is concerned that anyways will come sooner or later, cause truth is eternal and this experience isnt. We are the creator of it and we forgot what for we created it. We know of an era where almost every being present of earth was evolved to the highest possible , what kindof preferences priorities they had , how they lived. Earning money chasing some mental dream image of how we shud live life which boosts our ego, ultimately no matter how much we achieved outside, never gave the satisfaction we assumed will come with it.
These are some diff thoughts running thru my mind today. It doesn't have much relevance to what we were discussing but i thought ill let it out. Thankyou for bearing with me.
I do dream of a society where group of people live together, genuine spiritual seekers. I know its too much to ask for, but we have to sincerely rethink about our priorities as a community of human beings on earth. in pursuit of tangible we are missing the point of it all , experience was the main goal without any end goal. If it makes their stay more pleasant then its worth more than my pursuit of mindless material growth. After all to get human experience we have to take so so much of trouble and pain. and as far as attaining truth is concerned that anyways will come sooner or later, cause truth is eternal and this experience isnt. We are the creator of it and we forgot what for we created it. We know of an era where almost every being present of earth was evolved to the highest possible , what kindof preferences priorities they had , how they lived. Earning money chasing some mental dream image of how we shud live life which boosts our ego, ultimately no matter how much we achieved outside, never gave the satisfaction we assumed will come with it.
These are some diff thoughts running thru my mind today. It doesn't have much relevance to what we were discussing but i thought ill let it out. Thankyou for bearing with me.
~
Thoughts
on the Community
Hello
Naman,
Thank you again for the very interesting thoughts.
1. Yes, I was reflecting yesterday myself on the value of this community. It started small but has become quite decent in size now. Actually I was realizing that it is probable nothing like this has existed before in human history. This community was made possible due to the Internet, in particular the modern (not dial-up) kind.
We all made our way here by some special "pull" that brought us here and let us appreciate the value of this place. I think it is important we offer whatever modest financial support is needed to keep the site running; as it is also a resource for many "lurkers" or people reading who are looking for answers to specific questions.
2. Historically, it would be very, very difficult to get this number of spiritual people (in the real sense of the word...) together in one place. One would generally be on one's own for most of the spiritual quest - getting guidance where one could here and there, finding a few spiritual friends or special books here and there, and if one is lucky finding a genuine teacher, but otherwise being on one's own.
3. Yes, I agree with your modesty (not wanting to talk authoritatively about these topics). That is a sign of wisdom. I also like to defer to Jeff. For example, I did not reply to Jhanon's post he made, as I don't have the knowledge to give him an answer. At the same time, one does reach a point where one is one's own way, and can speak for oneself.
4. Finally, I like the point you made about the after death experience. Yes, this is the inevitable state of us all.
Thank you again for the very interesting thoughts.
1. Yes, I was reflecting yesterday myself on the value of this community. It started small but has become quite decent in size now. Actually I was realizing that it is probable nothing like this has existed before in human history. This community was made possible due to the Internet, in particular the modern (not dial-up) kind.
We all made our way here by some special "pull" that brought us here and let us appreciate the value of this place. I think it is important we offer whatever modest financial support is needed to keep the site running; as it is also a resource for many "lurkers" or people reading who are looking for answers to specific questions.
2. Historically, it would be very, very difficult to get this number of spiritual people (in the real sense of the word...) together in one place. One would generally be on one's own for most of the spiritual quest - getting guidance where one could here and there, finding a few spiritual friends or special books here and there, and if one is lucky finding a genuine teacher, but otherwise being on one's own.
3. Yes, I agree with your modesty (not wanting to talk authoritatively about these topics). That is a sign of wisdom. I also like to defer to Jeff. For example, I did not reply to Jhanon's post he made, as I don't have the knowledge to give him an answer. At the same time, one does reach a point where one is one's own way, and can speak for oneself.
4. Finally, I like the point you made about the after death experience. Yes, this is the inevitable state of us all.
